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Topic: Pay to Play, Should geocaching be free?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Scout Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 05 2002,1:17 pm QUOTE

The commercial site, geocaching.com, just announced that they are going to a fee-based service. They already required payment to place and track hitchhikers, but now they are going to require payment for other services, too, like something called premium caches and members-only forums. It's based partly on the cost of running the site, but also the desire of the Webmaster to give up his day job and cash in on geocaching.

This is a great opportunity for NaviCache.com to differentiate itself from the for-profit site. Find ways to keep geocaching a game run by the players and for the players. The hobby of geocaching used to have an appeal like a childhood pick-up game of  baseball in the vacant lot down the block. Lately, the Geocaching.com Web site is more like the Little League® World Series. More for the adults than the kids. Let's hope NaviCache.com stays focused on the kid in all of us.

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Quinn Offline
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Posted: Mar. 05 2002,3:06 pm QUOTE

I am glad you mention this fact. I for one will not go and make public promises I have no intentions of keeping, but I will say Geocaching was meant to be a free sport, COMPLETELY free. I fully understand that server time and some additions can cost money, but there are other ways to generate these funds instead of hammering it out from the members.
Right now everything you se here cost wise comes from our pockets, and at this time this is not a problem at all. If people wish to toss a cookie here and there that is great but I don't intend on asking for something in return for providing such a fun game.
I'll keep the rest of my comments tucked under my hat1  :nono

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Scout Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 05 2002,3:24 pm QUOTE

Quote (Quinn @ Mar. 05 2002,11:06 am)
I fully understand that server time and some additions can cost money, but there are other ways to generate these funds instead of hammering it out from the members.

You are welcome to run your site any way you want. It's your site. If some day you decide to charge, that's your right. I would ask that you allow the players some input into alternatives, not just impose it, but even that is your choice.

One alternative is a radical one that would require a complete change in the approach taken by all the sites so far. That would be to go to a distributed model using a Gnutella-like methodology. The load gets spread out among many machines, reducing bandwidth and storage demands on any one site. That spreads the cost out, too. Just a thought...

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Choberiba Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 05 2002,8:12 pm QUOTE

Quote
I a distributed model using a Gnutella-like methodology.

I *love* the idea of a distributed network.
It's been proven to work so well that Napster is a better known term than Usenet.
I've mention to folks here before that I'll store ten megabytes of info in my webspace. That's enough to cover the Bay Area and possibly the upper half of the state. :sick
Ideally though, people will submit an URL of their formatted website and the rest will automagically happen.
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mikechim Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 05 2002,8:22 pm QUOTE

You beat me to it Scout, I ran across that yesterday at the other site, complained there and was about to post it here, but didn't get around to it.  I have no problem with paying for extra features but paying for the right to find a cache is wrong.  It may leave nothing but garbage caches around, thank God I live on the east coast where Navicache is most active.  I'd rather see more advertising then that.

Grrrr... the more I think about it the more upset I get, one of the reasons I love geocaching is that it isn't commercial and it is grass roots, it's not HIS game it's OUR game.  If he had invented it then maybe just maybe he'd have the right (granted the inventor hates it now but that's beside the point).

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Gimpy Offline
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Posted: Mar. 06 2002,1:59 am QUOTE

I on the other hand, have absolutely no problem with ponying up some money (call it what you want) to defray costs. I don't even expect any extra features other than what the site owners choose to provide. I would hate to think that if Navicache was (and hopefully will) to grow to much greater proportions, that the entire burden of server costs & bandwidith etc., were to fall on Quinn or the other site designers. That, to me, would be totally selfish & inconsiderate on our part. And add to those costs the enormous time & effort put into what this site has become & will evolve into, & it's just plain out of the question to ask any one person or group to shoulder the burden. I look at it like this. I love this hobby,activity,pastime or whatever you choose to call it. I've got roughly $2,000.00 invested in gpsr's & mapping software. I've invested at least $400.00 in cache containers,trinkets, cache cameras etc. that I've placed out there for folks to find. And other expenses in the past year that I can't begin to calculate. But you can't put a price on the enjoyment I've had & the friendships I've made. And what is all that worth if I can't click on the Navicache (or the other sites) icon on my desktop & have the site pop onto my screen. And it's right there every time, without fail. I think that a lot of us, me included, are just so used to the reliability of this site, that we sometimes forget what is being put into it for us to be able to show up here every day. I took the bride out to dinner Saturday night, & thought nothing of the $80.00 tab. So is it even remotely possible that I should be hesitant about putting up some bucks to help insure that the costs involved in putting together & maintaining this site don't have to fall on just a single or a few individuals? I know that out of the last,say 300 days, I've probably been on here 290 of them. Thats certainly worth something to me. And as far as the other sites owner hinting that it's growth would almost require his full time attention, how would that possibly hurt the folks that use it. I think it would be great if Navicache grew to a point where Quinn could financially support his family on proceeds from the site & devote all his time here. That could do nothing but benefit us. I certainly couldn't juggle a full time job & devote the hours here that these folks have. Doesn't leave a whole lot of time for family & leisure I'm sure. But the bottom line is, I can't put a price on what this site is worth to me, but I cetainly hope the folks behind the scenes know that it's appreciated a lot more than you're sometimes told. So Quinn, send me an e-mail or post somewhere on the site, where I can direct a donation or whatever it should be called, to chip in for what you've made available here. It'll be one of the most worthwhile investment I've made in some time. And if Navicache gets to the point where costs would suggest a yearly membership fee, I'll be the first in line. End of ramble. :rotflmao

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Quinn Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 06 2002,2:27 am QUOTE

Gimpy...if you paid 80.00 for dinner you must eat more than I thought, this would explain why you're so "Gimpy"...you have to haul that extra food around with you!
Running this site on my own would have been a huge job if I wanted to keep everyone up to date on the things needed, but Having George and Brian as part of the team not to mention all of the great help that Roger (Road kill) has provided, has been more than needed to run the show.
I just don't want people to think that "Pay to play Geocaching" sites are only in it for the money, and when you throw those kind of fee's along with everything else it can really start to look that way.
90% of Geocachers have spent a great deal of time working hard to get the parks and lands people to see Geocaching as a sport that can only do good for the environment, this will most likely throw a wrench into the works as now it will make them wonder what the true motive is, Protecting and cleaning the lands or making a fast buck?
I must admit there are some things within this point that have upset me, mostly looking back at past e-mails from him about how he "didn't think it was right that my site was only created to make money" (which was farthest from the truth) and then to see this happen.
Sites do to a point cost money to run and operate, but I feel there are other ways to generate this than to pull it from members.
Look how huge "Wheres George" site is, the member base there is deep into the thousands, and the site is free to use for the public.
I have archived all of my caches listed there because I didn't feel comfortable with helping someone else make a profit on things I paid for and placed for people to enjoy. I could have all along just listed them here but I thought they were placed for everyone and as many people that found them the better.
We have shirts on the way in that all proceeds go back into the site for server time and what ever else is needed, things like this help fine. But if anyone wishes to send any donations they can use the "Pay-pal" donate link at the bottom of the main page. These funds go right back into the site and no place else (except for that new BMW that George ordered) :grinnin
No matter where you go or what site you visit, there is always going to be different opinions and views, I want you all to know i respect them all and that it is important to remember that this is just my opinion among many.

Edited by Quinn on --

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mikechim Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 06 2002,4:02 am QUOTE

Wow Gimpy you do have crazy money invested in this game and $80 for dinner, I don't think I've spent that much in the last 2 or 3 years going out to dinner total (but I'm poor).  (I do appreciate the time and money you've spent on caches, can't wait to hit some and I promise I will get out your guys's way sooner or later)
Anyway the cost isn't what upset me, neither is having a membership option that adds some extras.  I completely understand that the sites take money to run and that as they grow they will take more money, also I realize a huge amount of time is involved in them.  Like I posted on the geocaching.com site, I'd have no problem with special privileges for members, ie enhanced cache page making abilities, enhanced logging, special icons, icons in the message forums (that's something that's big on other non geocache forums I've started posting to, you pay a few bucks and get to make up a title, have a little thing by your name, get a picture and what not).  I even don't mind him being able to make money on it and quit his job doing only that full time, heck if I would have started a cache site up that was as big as geocaching.com or navicache.com I would be trying to think of a way to quit my job and do that full time as well.  The problem I have is with the "member only caches".  If those were not part of it, it would be a non issue to me.  Or if he placed those special member only caches, that would be fine as well.  But in creating member only caches you ARE commercializing the sport.  Creating new games like the travel bugs that are pay for play wouldn't bother me as much (I wouldn't be found of it but not enough to complain) but the member's caches are just plain wrong.  Geocaching is not an organized endevor, it's a grassroots sport or hobby, being forced to pay for the premier caches is damaging to the hobby IMHO.  To withold information is different then offering bonuses.  I also think it just looks bad for new people, if I would have stumbled onto a site that said here's some caches but give us $30 and you can get the premiere member caches I highly doubt I would have become attached to the game like I did.  I would have saw it (as Quinn points out) as a money making opportunity, in fact the one couple in WA that I introduced to geocaching, the guy was in marketing and he was convinced that it was all put out by either garmin or magellen or some individual making money off of it.  I told him that was not the case, that there were bonuses like travel bugs and some advertising to pay for the upkeep of the site, however I'm not sure I could say that anymore.  I realize these sites do belong to the people who own them, but the game belongs to US if it wasn't for the cachers their would be no geocaching, just as if it wasn't for the sites there would be no geocaching.  Even if it was $10 for the year I would still be upset because of the member caches.  If it was $100 for the year and no member caches I wouldn't be posting this ridiculously long email emphasizing the things that attracted me to a sport which involves searching for a plastic box filled with trinkets (actually it's acinine when you think about it  :grinnin ) but that's beside the point, it's the PRINCIPAL of the thing, get rid of member only caches, and ad a few advertisements if you have to, or have nonmembers see ads and members not see any.
I could rant forever about this, but I'll stop, this I think is the start of a big change in geocaching (maybe I'm being paranoid and I hope I am, but it's almost like the tobacco companies giving away cigarettes during the war, making them super addictive, and then charging for them  :withstupid  ok so that's an exageratted example, but it's 6:00 am I haven't slept and am somewhat irritated by this whole idea, I wouldn't even mind coorporate caches, that's fine because the info is still flowing.  Ok I'm stopping this rant for real this time.
But I realize not everyone views things the same way as me, if you can't tell I tend to get somewhat opinionated on philisophical or principal type things.

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Choberiba Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 06 2002,4:23 am QUOTE

I read Quinn's post, log in so I can post and -WHAM- another post only this time it's Mike.

I agree with what Mike said, it's all about the premium caches.
They should be on another site if nothing else.

Something like www.geocachedeluxe.com :grinnin
A seperate site with a seperate log-in, finds, hides, logs, and interface if need be. I still wouldn't be happy, but a whole heck-of-a-lot less grumpy about this.

One bonus to all this (and I'm a witness) is that ClayJar agreed to setup a seperate java link to the same chatroom. This one would relect the look-and-feel of Navicache.

He also made it clear to Quinn that the IRC channel is a seperate entity, much like the newsgroup I started.

Quinn, I'm about to ask you for a personal favor and it's sincere.
I'd like for you to be up front with us about the cost of running this site. I'm not exactly wealthy but I'd be very happy to cough up $3 a month or whatever to help offset the cost around here. Keep us informed if the expenses are a bigger number than the amount donated. Information is the key here, and I have no idea how much money you lose each month.
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Quinn Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 06 2002,5:34 am QUOTE

I might not be the best one to answer the "Cost per month" question, but right now it's not bad at all as far as server space. There is no payroll (though George,Roger and Brian could all use a raise) ;) The best answer I could give you is that whenever we cook up new ideas like maybe extra maps or scripts to enhance the site, or perhaps we would like to give away items as prize awards, this is really the only time right now that extra flow helps. We try to tackle things as a group and I think we have been teaming this very nicely thus far. I think that more important than money right now to us would be to just spread the word. The more people that know about us here and the more caches that are submitted over a large area, would mean more members wanting to come visit us to get this information.

  • on an important note I want you all to know I have already started becoming a pay site...on each of my cache containers I have installed a coin slot that requires .85 cents in order for the lid to open
 :grinnin
Oh...and thank you Gimpy and Chobey for your kind donation!

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Scout Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 06 2002,8:29 am QUOTE

Quote
it's just plain out of the question to ask any one person or group to shoulder the burden.

It's not the geocaching players who are asking one person to shoulder the burden. geocaching.com itself does not allow anyone else to help shoulder the burden, except through cash. That's the root of my objection to this business model.

geocaching.com threatened legal action against another player who offered to shoulder the burden by implementing a great value-added map service to geocaching.

geocaching.com got its start by taking cache information from the original geocaching Web site and offering value-added services. The Webmaster of the original site welcomed this. geocaching.com has not reciprocated the favor to anyone else who might be able to offer value-added services or help spread the cost. Instead it has threatened lawsuits. Now it is asking for membership fees. Won't it be ironic if some of those fees end up going to lawyers to sue other players?

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Quinn Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 06 2002,8:55 am QUOTE

Well said scout, and I agree with you 100%. I remember those days very well as I was also in that circle. I won't mention those great maps that were refused there (BUXLEY'S) but that sure did hurt the situation and open many eyes to the problem. It was pretty much at that very moment that I knew right where this was headed, and here we are.

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DxChallenged Offline
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Posted: Mar. 06 2002,12:23 pm QUOTE

Ok...so I still consider myself a newbee at this sport.  

I"ve been considering the fee....

What I have felt the most proud about with this sport was what it representes/represented.  Generousity.  A website available to all.  People who are willing to share a prize both tangible and intangible.  Just to think of it still makes me smile.  People are placing these boxes for anyone to find "with no strings attached".  In addition to that the participants get to exercise "in the real" (not a gym where you run on never ending turf like a trained rodent) and the pay off for that isn't just swet but places that you have other wise never discovered; an awesome way in a hectic lifestyle to really "stop and smell the roses".  

So in a way the fee makes me a bit sad.  A bit of the generousity is gone but at the same time I acknowledge reality.  I would much rather pay a fee to support a sport I endorse than to be faced with an endless array of advertisements.  It used to be that surfing the web conjured up the feeling of "surfing" from one intrest/knowledge stream to another unincumbered...Now it's like riding on the thruway with billboards at every turn.  And then there is the spam and various other varieties of mail that come through..Daily various pieces of "inappropriate mail" pops up....and nothing I have done has stopped it.......So if the fee will allow that site to continue unincumbered by adversitements.....great I'm for it.

That being said.  The quilt project that I did came out of my desire to give back.  It's been most excellent to discover the sport, the caches, awesome land formations and to chat with some truely remarkable people........So I wanted to say thanks for the time others had put in by putting in some of my own time and thus the geoquilt was started.....I had offered on geocaching.com, to create signature block  packets that individual  cachers would put in their own caches (so that a quilt could be formed for people who had many caches).  I was going to donate these to the site and let them sell them for whatever price and then the site would keep the money.  I am really glad that they didn't take me up on that as it could have been past my time constraints....But I'de be most happy to do this for navicache.  For the same reasons.

Thanks for all you do!!!
Dx

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Quinn Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 06 2002,4:40 pm QUOTE

Wow...I am not sure how to respond to that. I think your opinions and idea's are great. The Quilts you make are awsome and I am certain that anyone would love to get their hands on one. As long as I can at least get a picture of the whole group standing with it being held up before it is transferred to another owner. I am sure we will have a nice size gathering come June and this would be ideal. :)

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mikechim Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 07 2002,12:13 am QUOTE

Just came from the geocaching.com site, is it just me or does their new message board have an eerie resemblance to this one?  
Anyway it is truly sad to see how this issue has split the geocaching community (maybe I wasn't so paranoid after all).  Almost.. ALMOST enough to put a damper on my caching spirit.  

:(

(Popping a prozac)

Thanks for the site Navicache team, as soon as I have some expendable income it will be coming your way.  Or maybe I can just bribe you all with Pizza and beer.   :)

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mikechim Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 07 2002,12:27 am QUOTE

DX you flat out rock!!   :)   Seeing this very "community oriented" and "grassroots" approach is what caused me to fall in love with this sport.  I consider it an honor to know you and am glad you've started posting here, the world needs more people who are more concerned about others then themselves (just had this discussion with two of my coworkers today over a midnight dinner).  I guess I've become somewhat jaded over the last year or so.  Always putting others first getting burned (I don't mean expecting something in return I mean getting taken advantage of, used, or just screwed) and thinking is it really worth it?  There have been times when I thought maybe I should stop putting others first and have more concern for myself (still can't actually do it though  :) ).  If the whole world would think like you, Quinn, George, Roger, Brian and many of the other navicachers here (ok I know I'm ranting but like I said the three of us literally just had the conversation half an hour ago) things would go so much better.  

Just want to say thanks.
Mike

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Quinn Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 07 2002,5:42 am QUOTE

Quote (mikechim @ Mar. 07 2002,02:13 am)
Just came from the geocaching.com site, is it just me or does their new message board have an eerie resemblance to this one?  

Whoa!...and some people say we are a distant second :)  yet it looks like we had it right the first time. If I would have known that just by changing a forum boad and giving some of you guys special names that I could make 30.00, I would have done this long ago.  :grinnin
Just kidding...bad humor!

By the way Mike, I hope you decide to make the drive here for the get-together. I'd even be willing to put you up for the night so you can do the sat/sunday thing. We could take you out for some of the home grown caches and show you the area. Let me know!

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    Posted: Mar. 07 2002,8:19 am QUOTE

Quote (mikechim @ Mar. 06 2002,8:13 pm)
Just came from the geocaching.com site, is it just me or does their new message board have an eerie resemblance to this one?

One feature that stood out for me is the ability to rate topics. I've always been a promoter of the ability for cache finders to rate their caching experience (hint, hint), but the idea has always been hooted down. Now the new geocaching.com boards quietly introduce the ability to rate what's said on the message boards. Probably, no one will even bat an eye at this change. Ironic.

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Scout Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 07 2002,8:39 am QUOTE

mikechim, on the geocaching.com forums, you wrote: "First off I do want to thank Jeremy for being democratic enough to allow people (myself included) to post negative things about  his new idea on this site."

I'm replying to this on the NaviCache.com forums because my posting privileges were revoked on geocaching.com. Just thought you ought to know. ;-)

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mikechim Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 07 2002,11:04 am QUOTE

Quote (Scout @ Mar. 07 2002,10:39 am)
mikechim, on the geocaching.com forums, you wrote: "First off I do want to thank Jeremy for being democratic enough to allow people (myself included) to post negative things about  his new idea on this site."

I'm replying to this on the NaviCache.com forums because my posting privileges were revoked on geocaching.com. Just thought you ought to know. ;-)

:angry:
Why?  That's well I was going to say unbelievable but maybe it isn't.

Thanks for the offer Quinn, as long as I am in Erie at the time (and I should be, guessing I'll be back beginning of June) I will DEFINATELY be there, can't wait to meet everyone and of course see Roadkill's hat up close.
:)

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    Posted: Mar. 07 2002,12:45 pm QUOTE

Quote (mikechim @ Mar. 07 2002,07:04 am)
Why?  That's well I was going to say unbelievable but maybe it isn't.

It happened nine months ago. No explanation was ever offered. Inquiries were unanswered.

Also, controversial posts had a way of being deleted. And, controversial topics had a way of being closed. And it wasn't just negative things. My favorite was the day that a new player created two topics, one titled "Thanks Jeremy" and the other titled "Thanks Buxley." By nightfall, the "Thanks Buxley" topic was gone, poof!, no sign that it ever existed, and the "Thanks Jeremy" topic was still up, collecting lots of compliments about all that Jeremy was doing to "promote the sport of geocaching."  ;-)

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Choberiba Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 07 2002,1:55 pm QUOTE

Quote
I'm replying to this on the NaviCache.com forums because my posting privileges were revoked on geocaching.com. Just thought you ought to know. ;-)

This is also a *BIG* reason that I wanted a usenet group.

I didn't know Quinn all that well back then and wasn't really sure what ya'll were up to over here.

I've created a few sockpuppets as well.
Mostly they behave themselves but one of these days I might just have to break out the big guns over there.
That is, if I were the type to share my opinions on things. I'm such a timid guy that I don't know if I could muster the strength.
Maybe if Mike could pass me a Prozac or two I'll get through this.

I wonder when Google will start charging for membership?
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Quinn Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 07 2002,7:35 pm QUOTE

For some reason I still have a tough time thinking about those sock puppets without tears coming to my eyes. You need to name one...maybe "Sock-o"?

As for Scout...I know right where you are coming from as I think we have both been there and seen what there is to see.
I think someone got used to being patted on the back one too many times and when one went to someone else this just wasn't going to do!
Kinda like when The National news story went on the air...remember scout? I pushed both sites as much as i could along with Buxleys maps for the entire 5-6 hours the crew was with my family. Then when it went on the air and just pages from Navicache and Buxleys were seen I was the bad guy because I didn't mention that site...sigh!
It wasn't my fault that the editing room floor was covered with the things I mentioned.
You can pretty much speak your minds here with no worry of censorship as long as the language stays cool and those sock puppets don't go XXX. :grinnin

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Choberiba Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 08 2002,1:57 am QUOTE

It's a little frustrating that PayPal will no longer allow you to make payments without a "verified" account.

It would be just too cool to email $3 to each of my sockpuppets email addresses and then have them join as full members as well. Then I could change their "Charter Member" signs to "Sockpuppet"

I wonder if "Meatpuppet" would go over very well?

Anyway, I plan on placing caches there as "Member only" but listing them here as well. That okay with you folks?

--
"If large numbers of people publicly state that they consider you to be  a tiresomely self-satisfied little excrescence with nothing worthwhile  to say, it doesn't necessarily mean that the group is dominated by an  'elite' with a shared agenda. There could be a simpler explanation."  -  Angus McIntyre
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mikechim Offline
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Group: Members
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Joined: Oct. 2001
    Posted: Mar. 08 2002,1:14 pm QUOTE

Quote (Choberiba @ Mar. 07 2002,3:55 pm)
[quote]Maybe if Mike could pass me a Prozac or two I'll get through this.

I wonder when Google will start charging for membership?

Choberiba take two of these and email me in the mourning.

I think that's fine Choberiba (placing members only caches on that site and also placing the info here as well).  I mean in all reality it is your cache and you can do what you want, even not post it here.  
That being said posting it here is great and you'll hear no arguments from me, no information is being hidden and the caches can still be found.  Plus I'd hope that the cache stealers aren't as active over here, though I could be wrong.

All in all,
Excellent solution.

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"...Not all those who wander are lost..."
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Quinn Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 08 2002,1:24 pm QUOTE

Look on the bright side...Now that his site is going pay-to-use there is a good chance you can see Britney spears doing a Coke™ commercial holding up one of your caches.
Pretty soon you might even find small ad's placed on your cache box as well... Eat at Joe's! :grinnin

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"I Cache...Therefore I am!"
    Quinn Stone
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Rob Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 08 2002,1:39 pm QUOTE

Hello from a new member,

I’ve been caching for a year now though, with 7 hides and 14 finds, I’m definitely not a “Power Cacher”.  With the changes going on at the other site, I  thought it’s about time I expanded my horizons a little.  Nothing against Jeremy, I just felt a little let down now that his site has officially gone commercial.  I really liked the  “grass roots”, “home spun” and community feeling that I associate with the game.
I was  watching  when Quinn did the ABC news spot last year and observed the responses on the message boards. I think it was clear to me then where Jeremy was headed.  I have some businesses my self  so I have conflicting thoughts about this whole issue. On the other hand, as an old hippie from the 60’s, I definitely prefer the egalitarian approach to geocaching. Like I said, I’m not a “Power Cacher” and you probably won’t hear from me much but I’ll be around.
Rob
www.creekbed.com/geocache
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Quinn Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 08 2002,1:56 pm QUOTE

First off Rob.. Welcome to the site and Forums!
Secondly you are not allowed to use big words like "egalitarian" because they go over my head :grinnin
Feel free to drop in at anytime, things here are laid back and friendly (Except for that Gimpy fellow and his Ink jokes)
New caches, old caches, stranges caches, etc. Feel free to list them here as they belong to you!
I looked pretty cute on that ABC thing huh? :wave

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"I Cache...Therefore I am!"
    Quinn Stone
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PC Medic Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 08 2002,2:18 pm QUOTE

I would like to follow Quinn in welcoming you to the site. :wave

If the "grass roots home spun community feeling" is what you are looking for, I think you will find it here. I am an old hippie type from the 60's (and 70's....and 80's :oo: ) myself and can tell you we are a very laid back easy going bunch here. I'd even say most of us have a "egalitarian" approach to Geocaching ourselves (figure Quinn's looking that word up by now :grinnin ).

While many would think otherwise my being involved with the web site and all, I am not a "Power Cacher" either. In fact I am just getting ready to place my 3rd and have only found 7.
My family loves the sport though and we go out as a team when ever we can.

Edited by PC Medic on --

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'PC Medic'
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Rob Offline
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    Posted: Mar. 08 2002,2:20 pm QUOTE

Quote (Quinn @ Mar. 08 2002,12:56 pm)
like "egalitarian" because they go over my head :grinnin

Sorry, it’s one of those “buzz words” I picked up somewhere. lol :)
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