Forum: Misc Information of Interest
Topic: Secret Word
started by: dgridley
Posted by dgridley on May 09 2002,11:19 pmHehe.. go to www.dotsurf.com and enter the secret word (I'll give you a hint: it's "geocaching" without the quotes).. check out what happens!
Talk about "directed traffic"!
Posted by Hinge Thunder on May 10 2002,4:58 amI have never used them before, and probably wont in the future. The results page came up blank under Netscape, though there was code when I did show source (obviously not formatted correctly, and choking netscape up). It did display under IE.
Posted by dgridley on May 10 2002,7:10 am
?? What haven't you used before? Hm, I don't use Netscape... but if you go to Dotsurf and enter the word "geocaching" in the keyword search, you're automatically redirected here to NaviCache... if you go back during the same browser session and enter "geocaching", the results page comes up correctly...
Anyone else have a problem?
Posted by Hinge Thunder on May 10 2002,7:32 am
I don't use dotsurf.com. Never heard of them before your post. I use mostly google.com, or altavista.com as my search engines. I wouldn't keep playing with searching for gecocaching on dotsurf.com though, as I think you are costing poor Quinn a penny every time it comes up. We know where his site is.
I think more and more web page designers are testing their pages on IE, and assume they will work on Netscape also. There are some things that work on one, but not the other, and vis versa. I have avoided using IE for a long time, but might end up switching as more pages appear that just don't work under Netscape. My own ISP's webmail program doesn't work well at all under Netscape, and I am pretty much forced to use IE when away from home. Also Netscape is pushing their version 6, which stinks, so I am stuck using their version 4.7x.
Posted by dgridley on May 10 2002,7:52 amHehe... actually Dotsurf could be set to pull it's results from Google or any other search engine so there wouldn't be any other difference other than the user interface. Most search engines these days tend to pull results from the big boys..
You don't have to worry about costing Quinn any money.. Dotsurf is my site and Quinn is my brother I simply set it up that way for those who might venture by who've never heard of this site.. "gasp!"
Plus, Dotsurf is only a month old so that explains never having heard of it...
Posted by NetDep on May 10 2002,8:13 amNow THAT is my kind of find. Just type in the supplied secret word and get kicked right back to where I started - kinda. HEY - can I log that as a find??
Posted by dgridley on May 10 2002,8:20 am
Hehe... actually that would be a great way to hide cache info.. hide the secret word on a site someplace, then when they find it they are directed to a page with pertinent cache info..
Posted by Hinge Thunder on May 10 2002,8:23 am
Wow, I like that. You just are a front end to someone elses search engine. hmmmmm...
I have an idea!
www.hingethundercache.com. I will set up my own website, and when people enter in a zip code, I will just go to Quinn's site, do the search, and then pass on the results as my own. Nobody will need to come to Navicache.com anymore, they can just come to HingeThunderCache.com.
Thanks for the idea. I will get started straight away.
Posted by dgridley on May 10 2002,8:35 amHm, maybe you're missing the point.. the difference is in the user interface or other features the site may provide in addition to search results, like games, shopping, or other added features.
I don't pull from Google (because they limit pulled results to only one page) but many other (including some of the other big boys) do.. it's common practice, in fact. Nothing dishonest about it.
Here's the difference.. try and go to Google and get your site listed as number one.. on DotSurf, you can do that by listing your site and bidding on keyword placement for as little as 1 cent per click. Try and do that on Google! Those little text ads on the right side of their result pages are the same thing but cost infinitely more!
But we're getting off-subject here.. I was just trying to drive a little traffic Quinn's way...
Posted by Hinge Thunder on May 10 2002,8:46 am
Okay, so I will add a few things (games, book reviews, etc) to my site to make it original. Then I am legit?
Go to google, and do a search 'gedpage', and I am #1. Do a search for rjacob, and I am #1. do search for "rob jacob", and I am #2. Do a search for isshinryu, and I am #3.
I am all for driving more people to Quinn's site.
Posted by dgridley on May 10 2002,8:57 am
On the other hand, go to Google and enter Navicache and Quinn might be number 1 but enter geocaching and he isn't.. sites like DotSurf allow sites to list number 1 for their selected keywords by bidding, the same method as Googles text box ads... the difference is DotSurf doesn't spider for search results. DotSurf (and many other search engines) pull their results from elsewhere and add their own, unique results as well.
As for pulling the content, I don't see the problem.. I can pull weather, news, sports, or any host of other subjects from hundreds of free content providers. I can even pull search results from the Open Directory Project or many other search engines.. like I said, it's a common and accepted practice.
Posted by dgridley on May 10 2002,9:27 amBtw- checked DotSurf out with Netscape 6.2 and no problems in formatting or display but the redirection wasn't supported (probably because I didn't install java support)..
Posted by Hinge Thunder on May 10 2002,9:30 am
Well, maybe Quinn will be one day. When I started my Isshinryu page, I was way down. But I have moved up by continuing to improve my page, and promoting it. I have worked to make it search engine friendly (www.searchenginewatch.com). Google weights based on how many other people link to your site. The more people that link to your site, the higher you are. So slowly my site has moved up. I believe google does take fees to move listings up.
You pulling content from the big guys like google is no different than if I were to pull content from geocaching.com, and navicache.com. If I were to do something different with the content to make it original, then there would be a purpose. Buxley's Maps pulls content, and suplies something unique. But then he also links back to the original source, so there is a benefit to Quinn and Jeremy's sites. There is another geocaching stat page that is pretty cool, that pulls content from geocaching.com, and again is unique. But a search engine, that grabs results from another search engine, and passes it through, with no benefit to the original search engine that actually did all the work of crawling the web, and pays the costs of storing the data, etc. This just seems wrong. What value does it add? When I create pages, I try to do something that doesn't exist, or improve on something that does exist. I try to add value.
Posted by dgridley on May 10 2002,9:45 amGood point.. you add value, which is something each site should try to do by adding features that are different from or not found elsewhere. Dotsurf will be featuring interesting links to various websites on the net by displaying their webpage in a frame on the main page, among other things. It's good exposure for everybody.
As I say, this is getting off the whole point of the link to NaviCache (which is there as a banner ad and as a secret word link).. incidentally, Quinn probably would tend to agree with you.. he hates the PPC search engine concept himself and has no direct connection to DotSurf at all...
We'll have to agree to disagree on the pulled content.. I can set my SE script to either pull content or not BTW - the option is there but I don't see any difference in Excite.com (for example) pulling weather info from weather.com and me pulling content from whereever.
One last comment, Google itself has a link to Search Solutions on it's main page with provisions for adding Google search results to your website FREE... so, if I did pull results from Google (which I don't), there's no difference.
Posted by Hinge Thunder on May 10 2002,11:00 am
I am guessing that Excite.com, and Weather.com have a legal relationship. That Excite.com PAYS Weather.com for use of the content. This is just a guess.
Posted by dgridley on May 10 2002,11:12 amNo need to pay weather.com.. I can go there right now and sign up to pull content from them myself for FREE or use a script like HAMweather to do it.. the point is, many of these larger services provide for pulling content from their sites...
As an aside, for those of you who thought geocaching was weird, take a look here: < Weird Sport >...
Posted by Hinge Thunder on May 10 2002,11:30 am
If you go to this page:
< http://oap2.weather.com/oap/index.html >
You will see that the FREE weather content that you get are small boxes that clearly have the weather.com logo. That the kind of thing that Excite has is the FEE based weather content.
Posted by dgridley on May 10 2002,11:35 am
Well, as I said, there's no sense in arguing.. I can show you a thousand free content providers, web fetching scripts, and the like and your opinion probably won't change..
Then, neither will mine... we all have our opinions.. it's just that mine are right and yours are wrong, hehe..
Posted by Hinge Thunder on May 10 2002,11:45 am
Heck, my opinions don't matter for squat. But when you start getting cease and desist letters from lawyers...
Posted by dgridley on May 10 2002,11:55 amWell, like I said, I don't pull from Google in any case and the script itself sold as smartsearch has provisions for pulling from up to 4 different pre-configured search engines.. I'm sure they've investigated the legality of it prior to releasing the script. Here's the url: < SmartSearch >
Posted by PC Medic on May 10 2002,3:40 pm
Actually that is exactly how most search engines work.
Yahoo for example (which by the way is not a true search engine) along with AOL pull their results from Google. Now Google (while it does also have a crawler) gets much of its info from DMOZ.
As for your idea with the Navicache database, Too late.
Posted by Quinn on May 10 2002,4:59 pmDave is correct... I do not like the system he speaks of and when looking at the page it shows that it's a pay-per-click of 1 cent from Navicache...this is not true and Navicache does not pay that search engine or any other for that matter to be listed.
Posted by dgridley on May 10 2002,7:03 pmQuinn is right.. I gave NaviCache $1000. faux credit and created an account on DotSURF (my website) to advertise his site and place NaviCache at the top of the listing for any geocaching related keywords. When I first told him I purchased the site, he didn't want any part of it and asked me to please ask before I posted anything on his website regarding anything of a commercial nature.. his retort was something to the effect, "It's the devil's work, I tell you! Away, foul demon!"... well, I've seen the error of my ways and have confessed my sins to the world... shame on me!
Posted by Quinn on May 10 2002,7:38 pmyet you still do it...
Forums are not made (at least this one isn't) for people to come in and dump ad's and or business cards in to draw people. I did not delete, edit or censor in anyway any of the posts made. I did however ask that if something like that was to be posted that I was to be asked if I thought it to be in taste for the site first. If I allow one then I must allow them all no matter what type of site or business it is. I and the forums are not here to promote Burger king or anyone else for that matter unless it or they start selling GPSR's, maps, or placing Geocaches.
But...thats your site and you can do with YOUR site as you wish. So before you turn this into a bicker thread and titfertat every neg comment about it I'll clear from here.
Posted by PC Medic on May 10 2002,7:41 pmTechnically speaking whether it is free or "pay for click" a Search Engine is a Search Engine. Fact is Yahoo, Google and many others have their own pay-for-click programs and they are quite popular, and used by some of the major corporate sites. It's plain common sense that if you have a product (or site) and want exposure, you invest, you advertise.
And in this case, the investment was $0.
Posted by dgridley on May 11 2002,2:41 pmBTW- the Secret Word experiment has been disabled tho I will someday replace it with another one directing elsewhere...