Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Why are there 2 geocaching sites?
started by: ian5281

Posted by ian5281 on Oct. 22 2003,4:30 pm
Why are there 2 geocaching sites?  It seems to me that your biggest beef with GC.com is the fact that they censor the mentioning of YOUR site.  That's not cool of them, I agree, but would the sport not benefit if everyone went with the more popular site?  Despite a few shortcomings?

Not trying to be an arse, here...really!   :withstupid

Posted by PC Medic on Oct. 22 2003,5:02 pm
First and most importantly, let me be clear in that we (Navicache.com) have no "beef with GC.com". :nono
WE do not censor the use of the term Geocaching.com, WE do not stop anyone from posting links to < Geocaching.com > in the forums or in their cache descriptions, and WE have not threatened anyone with lawsuits.
We have on the other hand attempted since the beginning to work together with Geocaching.com and Jeremy had no interest in this. So I say to you Where's the beef! :grinnin

What we do have here is one of many (there are more than two) sites dedicated to the sport of geocaching. We are not a sudden pop-up and try to steal some members site as some of the newer geocaching enthusiasts are often led to believe. In fact we are a mere few months younger than GC.com. We are interested in the sport (can you tell) and in keeping it free (so far so good), and providing others with the same interests a place to go to post forum messages about it, chat about it, and yes even submit cache entries (even Virtuals).

Now whether or not the sport would benefit "if everyone went to the more popular site" I guess we won't know until they all come over will we! :grinnin Seriously, do you really believe that things would be better? Why would a vendor improve their product if they had no competition? They wouldn't.

By the way, while avoid censoring, you'll notice I do move threads to the appropriate forums category. :thumbs-up



Posted by ian5281 on Oct. 22 2003,5:50 pm
Thanks for your great reply!
I did some more reading.  I guess I did not realize that Geocaching.com was a for-profit site.  I suppose it would make sense that they would censor mention of their competition, but I think the practice hurts them.  It should be mentioned, that running a search for Navicache yields many many results in thier forums.
Is Navicache a for-profit site?
Ian

Posted by Guest on Oct. 22 2003,6:50 pm
We happen to use both sites, but when we moved from N.Y. to Colorado, we found that there isn't too many "navicaches" out here. I am sure in time though, there will be a lot more caches popping up in the 81007 zip code. :grinnin


Upinyachit :p

Posted by Quinn on Oct. 23 2003,5:45 am
Hey upinyachit...very nice indeed to see you around again. Thought you guys fell off the face of the earth. It wasn't the same not having you at the fall picnic at Letchworth this year. :(

No... we do not profit from any money donated or sent to the site. We use all funds to enhance the website and help pay for server costs.

We do link to places like Magellan and they have helped us in the past with product for review and give-aways, but they do not pay for ad space.   :)

Posted by TEAM 360 on Oct. 23 2003,3:42 pm
Geocaching is the sport. GC.com is just one website that supports that sport. Navicache is another. There are plenty more out there. One of the drawbacks about using various sites is that a cachers numbers won't be tracked accurately, which really shouldn't be a drawback at all, when you realize that each cacher should be keeping track of their own numbers anyhow. "Finding a cache" is still "finding a cache", no matter how you slice it, and it makes no difference what site you got the cache coords from. Cache listings are what makes a site strong. Everyone should post their caches on multiple sites. It's YOUR information, anyhow, and you can do whatever you like with it. In a perfect world, sites would SHARE this information automatically. It is up to the person posting to make sure that the different sites get the info, at least for now.
Posted by Tahosa on Dec. 01 2003,4:57 pm
Being a Chef I know variety and creativity can create some interesting dishes.  So there is more than one way to create and list an cache, free enterprise and choice is a lot better than an monopoly.
Posted by axcion on Dec. 01 2003,6:10 pm
Quote (Tahosa @ Dec. 01 2003,5:57 pm)
free enterprise and choice is a lot better than an monopoly.

Heck of an idea! Isn't this what good ol' Teddy Roosevelt had in mind when he broke up the old monopolistic "trusts" of the old days?

Now don't I wish that most cities would QUIT granting monopolies to phone companies, cable companies, electric companies, etc....

They just enable the companies to gouge the consumer and charge neat things like:

Customer Fee
Franchise Fee

I am going to start a stink at my local city council about this!

(Yeah, I know utilities tend to get around monopoly laws!)

Posted by Brobubba on Dec. 02 2003,2:50 pm
As any sport grows, different philosophies and ideas abound.  Because of the nature of this sport, I can see many sites developing to handle the expanding popularity of the game.  I think that openness between the sites will add to the fun, but even if that doesnt happen, for what ever reason, the participants can and will utilize the sites they like. This is still a new concept that is growing in leaps and bounds.  As people settle into their preferences, they will gravitate to sites that fall in line with their way of thinking.   That isn't necessaraly bad, just part of the growth.
Posted by RobbyMS on June 23 2008,7:52 pm
Hello, I've been a member of geocaching.com for nearly 2 years and have found almost 400 caches with them, today for the first time I stumbled upon this site, and therefor signed up for a free account. How do the two websites compare, are they rivals? are they the same thing? I noticed one cache nearby to my home, that I have found with Groundspeaks GeoCaching.com, that is also listed on NaviCache.com, I'm slightly confused, why would there be 2 different sites? My wife and I love geocaching and somehow have never heard of NaviCache.com, sorry if this all sounds stupid, just really confused. :withstupid
Posted by Omega on June 24 2008,10:08 am
First, let me welcome you to NC.  Second, I don't see this site as a rival, more like a compliment site.  This site allows some hides that GC doesn't.  GC doesn't allow virtuals, webcam caches anymore, and they are very strict on what they consider "commercial" and agenda caches; ie. they don't allow my yellow ribbon banner here: < Another Smiley Cache >  Though all my caches are listed on GC, I list the page here too, with anything I want/need to display on the page.

v/r
Jose/ (O-Mega on GC)

Posted by PC Medic on June 24 2008,1:32 pm
I also would like to start off by saying welcome to Geocaching With Navicache :wave

With that said I will point out that there are much more than two sites and you do not hear about them on GC.com as they are a commercial entity and see all others as competition. The rest I will leave to the other threads that already exist here in the forums covering this very subject including this one wich I have merged your original post with.



Posted by mother wolf on June 27 2008,7:01 pm
I am 1 of those people that started at GC.com. I will say that I have enjoyed it for the most part. Yes it is their game & can set the rules. I then found NC but didnt really use it as there didnt seem to be the quanity of caches out there. as time went on I found that between both GC.com & NC my needs were better met. I also belong to Terra caching. I see it as utilizing as much of what is out there to make my caching adventures more pleasurable.

It works for me & I think my adding caches here at NC has also helped NC, so everyone wins. It's a good choice for me & I'm happy with what I get in return. That helps make caching that much more fun & that's what it's all about. MW

Posted by PC Medic on June 28 2008,4:53 am
Quote (mother wolf @ June 27 2008,9:01 pm)
I am 1 of those people that started at GC.com. I will say that I have enjoyed it for the most part. Yes it is their game ........

Just for clarification, it is not 'their game'. Being the largest site does not make it so. Nor do they 'set the rules' outside their site.
The latter is one reason there are multiple sites.... because many became tired of them thinking that they (and only they) set the rules.

Posted by USA 45 on July 10 2008,1:32 pm
Yes and I'm another started out at GC .I think MotherWolf meant that it's their web site and they can do as they please. And yes every web site has rules. I like NAVACACHE for they have no agenda problem. If I want to Thank someone on my cache page I can , or put support our Troops I can. GC does not let you do that any more. They have become so big and now have other countries evolved that they don't want to offend anyone. Hummm I guess their roots have become the money maker. I have heard this site does not have all the bells and whistles. (Some Day) This is a down to earth caching site. It just takes a little more time to add caches from the other site. No big deal. USA45
Posted by Rogheff on Dec. 07 2008,7:11 am
Quote (PC Medic @ June 28 2008,6:53 am)
Quote (mother wolf @ June 27 2008,9:01 pm)
Yes it is their game ........

Just for clarification, it is not 'their game'. Being the largest site does not make it so. Nor do they 'set the rules' outside their site.

This is increasingly frustrating.  I find more and more government entities that are aware of, and make geocaching guidelines, according to one website - gc.com.    

I recently had a discussion with someone at the Wisconsin DNR regarding geocaching guidleines with respect to moving, locationless and virtual caches.  Wisconsin DNR has very strict guidelines when it comes to placing a geocache.  This person had never heard of two of these cache types (or Navicache or Terracache or letterboxing for that matter) and had no comments on a policy regarding them.

I was directed to the village of Eden Prairie, Minnesota's new geocaching policy.  It's very apparant that they are aware of only GC.com and their cache types.  I placed a cache in Eden Prairie which I had intended to list on GC.com.  

I will follow their guidelines, but now feel that it is my duty to inform them that they are misinformed and really should ammend their geocaching policy.

Unfortunately, that one site IS setting rules and regulations for the activity outside of it's website.

Posted by PC Medic on Dec. 07 2008,10:05 am
Quote (Rogheff @ Dec. 07 2008,9:11 am)
Quote (PC Medic @ June 28 2008,6:53 am)
Quote (mother wolf @ June 27 2008,9:01 pm)
Yes it is their game ........

Just for clarification, it is not 'their game'. Being the largest site does not make it so. Nor do they 'set the rules' outside their site.

This is increasingly frustrating. I find more and more government entities that are aware of, and make geocaching guidelines, according to one website - gc.com.

8-< SNIP


Unfortunately, that one site IS setting rules and regulations for the activity outside of it's website.

I have seen this as well and have my own thoughts/therories on what drives it. I also have issue with government agencies promoting single commercial entities and attempting to prevent others from participating. More unfortunate IMHO is that many geocachers sit by and watch this happen. As an individual I can not control or even take the time to contact every federal, state and local parks and recreation area to plead a case for those that feel geocaching should be no more restricted than other activities within those same areas. That is up to the geocachers that live within or use those areas to contact those in charge of these areas and make their opinions known.

The only thing that has made GC the self-proclaimed 'official' geocaching site is the geocachers that sit back and let them do so. They are no more the 'official' geocaching website than Wally-World is the 'official dept. store.

Posted by earlthepearl on Dec. 24 2008,6:19 am
Another site is:
< http://www.terracaching.com/ >

Posted by sandvika on Jan. 14 2009,7:58 am
I started on Navicache within weeks of starting caching and on Terracaching a few months later. I appreciate the diversity and welcome the freedom it brings.

It quickly became apparent to me that Groundspeak has its own agenda and wants to shape our game in its image. Temporary bans are common on its forum and members may be banned permanently. Pay to play is on its way with "member only" cache listings and a "software cartridge" cache type. It already exists with service fees on all trackable items. Go figure, they are after your wallet and that was the game plan from day 1. Hence the fact that is is also a "closed user group" and considers your listings to be its property.

Groundspeak has also well and truly crossed the line between listing and governance. IMO governance is entirely separate. In UK we have Geocaching Association of Great Britain to which I have recently been elected to the national committee and its remit includes obtaining consent to cache from major landowners (including government agencies). There is no way that Groundspeak could or should be involved in this.

However, getting cooperation from listing sites (eg. to delist caches that do not have consent or are in breach of consent agreement) when the cache owner won't is highly desirable to prevent the game being brought into disrepute. Ultimately, it's not in the interest of any listing site to have inaccurate data....



Posted by Quinn on Jan. 17 2009,2:00 am
Well hello and thanks!  :grinnin
Posted by kd8ikt on Feb. 06 2009,5:31 pm
yeah i dont like a lot of those things about GC sandvika said :D like the premium member locking stuff and rules galore :angry:
Posted by earlthepearl on April 10 2009,5:18 pm
3 sites.
Geocache, NaviCache, TerraCache

Posted by whiteurkel on April 12 2009,1:20 pm
Quote (earlthepearl @ April 10 2009,7:18 pm)
3 sites.
Geocache, NaviCache, TerraCache

4 Sites. Navicache.com, Geocaching.com, Terracaching.com and GPSgames.org.  And that's just the U.S., the rest of the world hasn't checked in yet.   :tungue2
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