Forum: Using The Website
Topic: Are Puzzle caches allowed on Navicache?
started by: lowracer

Posted by lowracer on Dec. 11 2003,5:07 am
I tried to cross-post this puzzle cache here on Navicache yesterday:

< http://www.geocaching.com/seek....7069719 >

Here was the response from navicach@rochester.rr.com:
-------
Cache Declined
Caches with bogus coordinates are not permitted and caches within the U.S. would need English description.
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It's a puzzle cache.  Coords are bogus because you have to solve the puzzle to figure out the real coordinates.  No 'English description' on this one because you have to decipher the (admittedly very evil) puzzle to determine the coordinates.  

Anyway, hope you'll reconsider.   If not, no big deal.  But it would be the first time I've ever seen Navicache reject a cache that Geocaching.com had approved.

-mark.

Posted by PC Medic on Dec. 11 2003,8:11 am
First, it would be appreciated if you not post a message to the forums that "Puzzle caches are no longer accepted on Navicache" This is incorrect and confusing to those that may want to submit one properly.

It was I that declined your cache as it consisted of an image in japanese or chineese text (did not take the time to real make a determination) and the only description was "the above coordinates are bogus". It has been explained before that caches with "Bogus" coordinates are not permitted. This is done for several reasons. Now if you would like to submit a puzzle cache with a proper description and legitimate coordinates (yes this is possible even with a puzzle cache if you think about it), then we will be happy to reconsider.

If you have other quaestions about this then maybe you need to visit the < Contact Us > page or PM me. directly if you like.

Posted by Scout on Dec. 11 2003,8:31 am
Quote (PC Medic @ Dec. 11 2003,9:11 am)
It has been explained before that caches with "Bogus" coordinates are not permitted.

I remember this being discussed just recently. And maybe even with regard to another of lowracer's caches. Anyway, what I remember is that the coordinates used to list the cache have to be somewhat close to the cache, perhaps a parking lot or maybe the middle of a lake in the park where the cache is. This allows mapping services like Buxley's to have a place to display a push pin. It also prevents damage at the site of the bogus coordinates, just in case the bogus coordinates happen to fall in someone's flower bed by accident. A reasonable policy, imo.

Posted by lowracer on Dec. 11 2003,11:15 am
Hi PC Medic & Scout, thanks for the comments.

Would it be possible Navicache provide a real contact email address in the decline message? I've never been able to correspond with that address. It seems to be output-only. In the future I'll use the "Contact Us" tab instead of burdening the forums with this type of question.

Also please note that I did not post "Puzzle caches are no longer accepted on Navicache" as the title. I invite you to please re-check the title. My title is a question.

I reiterate my question here: If Bogus coordinates are not permitted, how is it that Puzzle caches are allowed? If you post the real coordinates, there's no need to solve the puzzle! In this case, I've posted coordinates that are in a lake in the general vicinity (within the same park) of the actual container, to prevent people (who don't have the printout) from trashing a random area of ground. Perhaps the word "bogus" is not accurate, however this is the exact word that is used on geocaching.com and by many other players of the sport (at least here in Austin TX) to describe coordinates that do not point to the container in a puzzle cache. In other puzzle caches I've posted coords for a parking lot for the park the cache is in.

PC Medic, the image "in Japanese or Chinese text" that you refer to is the puzzle. Is Navicache.com determining the appropriateness of puzzles that are used to compute the coordinates on puzzle caches? If you would like for me to supply Navicache.com with the solution to the puzzle so that you folks may determine if the cache is acceptable for posting on your site that can be arranged.

In the future, I will include a note to the reviewer on my cache postings which provide a step-by-step solution to the puzzle, an indication of how the posted coordinates are related to the location of the actual cache, and I will refrain from using the word "bogus" in my descriptions of the posted coordinates. :cool:

PC Medic, I'm emailing you the solution now in a separate message.

Thanks,
-mark.



Posted by Scout on Dec. 11 2003,12:16 pm
Quote (lowracer @ Dec. 11 2003,12:15 pm)
I reiterate my question here: If Bogus coordinates are not permitted, how is it that Puzzle caches are allowed? If you post the real coordinates, there's no need to solve the puzzle! In this case, I've posted coordinates that are in a lake in the general vicinity (within the same park) of the actual container, to prevent people (who don't have the printout) from trashing a random area of ground.

I've done several puzzle caches. All are multis, with the first stage being a real physical location that could be useful in solving the puzzle, but aren't always essential. Your technique of using a spot in a parking lot or the middle of a nearby lake seems reasonable to me. Maybe it's just the term "bogus coordinates" that sets the alarms off.

Posted by PC Medic on Dec. 11 2003,12:38 pm
Quote (lowracer @ Dec. 11 2003,1:15 pm)
Would it be possible Navicache provide a real contact email address in the decline message? I've never been able to correspond with that address. It seems to be output-only. In the future I'll use the "Contact Us" tab instead of burdening the forums with this type of question.

You are correct in that these are outbound only messages, but we will look into perhaps changing this.

Quote

Also please note that I did not post "Puzzle caches are no longer accepted on Navicache" as the title.  I invite you to please re-check the title.  My title is a question.  


Your original title (which I changed by the way) while it may have had a question mark on the end, could still be confusing to many. Believe me, folks do not always read letter for letter.

Quote

I reiterate my question here: If Bogus coordinates are not permitted, how is it that Puzzle caches are allowed?  


You have answered your own question here in how with other 'puzzle caches' you have posted the cordinates to a parking lot in the park which the cache is in. This would be exactly what one should do, and then note it as such in the cache description. While GC.com may use/permit the term "Bogus coordinates" we do not UNLESS it clearly states where that the coordinates are to a nearby area such as a parking lot, clearing or trail head for example.

As for the image, no we are not determining the 'appropriateness' and that was not what was in question, it was the total lack of any description as to what it was. Please see my original response. Also do not place notes within the cache submission for the 'reviewer' as we do not have time to edit all the submissions to remove added notes.

Posted by lowracer on Dec. 11 2003,1:03 pm
OK let me try this again, now that this has been clarified.  Will attempt to re-post the cache including the suggestions made here.
Posted by PC Medic on Dec. 11 2003,5:44 pm
Now see how easy that was  :grinnin  :thumbs-up
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