Joined: Mar. 2006
||Posted: Mar. 02 2006,6:41 pm
|Quote (Quinn @ July 06 2002,4:38 pm)|
|What mud? Oh, just the usual "Dave Ulmer is a god on Earth but Jeremy is a bad man for trying to make a few bucks while I buy my Navicache shirt like a raging hypocrite" mud. :0o|
Okay, lets clear this up a tad... It was you that mentioned "make sure it's the right mud"!
I sell shirts on the website to cover the very small cost of server space that the site requires. Not once have I ever said other wise. By the way you act like I have five people packing these shirts as if millions are going out the door daily. If a shirt sells, fine! but to be honest they only sell once in a while and it's no big deal to me either way.
Now, lets get to the "right" mud. Not sure who you are or what your intentions are in posting here (which is all fine and dandy) But just try to go into Jeremy's forum and type the word "Navicache" and see what happens, it gets censored.
3/4 of actual facts about who created Geocaching and the true story behind it have all been censored and deleted from those very forums. The only time you see something left in is if by chance it seems to make him look good in the public eye.
For the better part of a year and a half I have heard nothing but how he wants to only help the sport and keep it from falling into the hands of other wanting to turn it commercial, well take a better look because thats exactly what that site is and nothing more. People have very positive opinions of him and they are entitled to feel that way, I on the other hand have extremely negative feelings based on facts that I myself have encountered (most of them directly from him to me)
This fellow watched the sport become created, then quickly ran out and app'd for copy right as if he were the one that came up with the idea. Heck...he even told the reporters he "coined" the term.
When Navicache was first placed on the net I was contacted by Jeremy telling me that if I did not remove the word "Geocaching" from my website that I would face a lawsuit, and I was not the only one that was threatened with this as Buxleys Maps were also contacted in this fashion.
So if you are trying to compare my single shirts to "charter memberships, Travel bugs, shirts, hats, bags, pads, stickers, etc...you are really reaching here bud!
Last July I did a national News story that was placed on ABC with Peter Jennings that ran for over 7 on air minutes. I mentioned the sport and all the pro's behind it for the family life. I mentioned Navicache.com (I'd be a fool not to) and I also mentioned Geocaching.com and Buxleys maps repeatedly as well. The crew was here for about 6-7 hours doing the story, but when it hit the tube much of what I had said ended up on the editing room floor including all the nice things I said about Geocaching.com...
So here I was doing the sport as well as ALL the sites a favor by plugging them on national TV, but not once was any site address mentioned and Geocaching.com was left out completely. Now when Jeremy caught word of this the first thing he said in his own forums was that I was only thinking of myself and how rude it was of me that I left out any mention of him or his site (remember the editing room floor)
But in any case, just how many times has he mentioned Navicache in those countless stories he has done? Zippo!
Now remember, you want me to respect your opinions, then I ask you respect mine and I just laid them out on the floor for you to see. It is my opinion that site could care less about the land we use for the sport as long as it continues to pump money into the pockets of those involved. Making money is all well and good, and there is nothing wrong with it by any means, but don't lie to me and tell me that "it's not about the money" and that "I am not making any profit" or "I am only doing this for the good of the sport", when you and I both know better.
In this forum you can say the word "geocaching" or even link to another site, try that there with the word "Navicache"
Let me know if you want a list of people that were banned from the use of that site because they simply said they liked Navicache too.
You ever wonder what keeps that site from going completely "Pay to play"? the answer is right in front of your face at this very moment.
I won't go as far as placing all of his e-mails to me here for the public to see, but I can assure you that my opinions about this matter were well thought out and do not come without fact.
By the way...I honestly welcome you to the forums here and I can assure you it's very hard to tell what one's intentions are merely from text on a screen. I sincerely hope you find something within these pages that make you return I am also sure you will find that many people (most) are very kind hearted and wish to do nothing more than help others here.
So please do not let my comments backlash into having you think this was in any way about you, I just happen to have been there when this all came about so I think I know a bit more (could be wrong though it wouldn't be the first time)
And my opinions on Dave U? I like the fellow and respect his ideas. He voiced his thoughts and stood by them and was called names for doing so. And YES! quite a bit of what he said was removed so many people do not know the complete story.
Hello. I have a strong interest in history and I am a regular participant of the Groundspeak forums where I have been recently discussing this subject. I came to these forums specifically to reinforce my research about the true history of geocaching. Of course, everybody knows that Dave Ulmer hid the first stash. And some know that a dispute between two people resulted in tarnishing the true history that is published at Groundspeak.
My research has been extensive; I know there are topics that have been deleted that would be helpful to understanding this sad dilemma. I am not a Jeremy basher, or for that matter any kind of basher. I just respect history, especially relating to my own interests such as geocaching.
Having read almost everything available on the internet, I have found very little that Dave Ulmer has said publicly that is negative about geocaching. I did see where he called Jeremy an “idiot” in the Groundspeak forums. Also, in a
post somewhere else, he stated:
From: "David J. Ulmer" Date: Mon Jun 12, 2000 10:45pm Subject: Problems with GeoCaching... You really don't see the problems with a sport until you get deeply involved in it. As the one that has placed the most stashes so far, I began to seethe problems that it created. Some of my stashes are placed on tree farms owned by a large corporation. They are not, No Trespassing areas but they are private property. I didn't think too much about it at first because woods is woods around here, and a cache bucket seems like a pretty benign thing. The problem I saw was with the published coordinates attached to an uninvited bucket attached to my name could some day cause trouble. Some corporate dude five years from now could decide to prosecute me for littering or something just for the fun of it. For that reason I've decided to remove the stash buckets but keep the coordinates that are interesting for another game....
But there was obviously more to it than that. BTW, in the Groundspeak topic linked above, I state that I have received an email from Ulmer (just this week) in which he denies that he ever asked for his name to be removed from that website. Also, there are links in that topic that demonstrate quite clearly that, at one time, Groundspeak did publicly recognize Ulmer as the inventor of geocaching.
So I ask some of the geoldtimers who may frequent these boards to provide links, or copies, or other memoranda related to exactly what took place that caused the earliest and most popular geocaching website to severe it’s relationship with “the father of geocaching.”