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Topic: A fair exchange, Declining quality of trinkets< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
mrmom Offline
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Posted: June 03 2002,6:44 pm QUOTE

A few at the picnic were discussing the quality of caches.  I just visited an attorneys cache.  It was filled with a dozen stick pens, a ruler and a used McToy.  I was the first to find.  And attorneys wonder why they have a reputation??? :sick
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Quinn Offline
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    Posted: June 03 2002,6:49 pm QUOTE

LOL... I feel for ya. There have been more times than I can remember where I have gone to great distance to make a cache a very high quality one. I even make mention that if you take something to PLEASE trade of equal value to keep the contents of interest to the next finder. Then after about a dozen hits I will check on it to find it filled with burger toys and pencils.

I can understand people like to cache, but at least follow the persons request that placed it.

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Hinge Thunder Offline
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    Posted: June 03 2002,7:10 pm QUOTE

Personally, I am not in it for the trinkets, I am in it for the hunt. More often, than not, I don't swap anything. Though, if something strikes me as cool, I will swap for it. I never pass up a PEZ dispenser. If it hadn't already been done, I would do a PEZ cache myself. Most of my own caches are stocked with stuff I have lying around that I think people might like, or dollar store stuff that I think people might like. Though in the smaller caches, I am generally forced to stock them with stuff that will fit.

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mrmom Offline
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    Posted: June 03 2002,9:42 pm QUOTE

H.Thunder, in my next cache, I will fill it with 1 part of portland cement, 1 part sand, and two parts peat moss.  With such a mix, I know you'll be in it for the treasure!  If you were a log, I'd call you stump.  Your middle name is rocky; isn't it?  At the picnic, while standing on the spot, you got me!
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Firemedic Offline
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    Posted: June 04 2002,2:20 pm QUOTE

I like to take something and leave something of equal value. Frequently there are nothing but happy meal toys.  When I find that I leave a "george" and take a memory of the hunt.

I get really excited when there is a "george" already there so I can exchange.
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Hinge Thunder Offline
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    Posted: June 04 2002,2:40 pm QUOTE

Quote (mrmom @ June 03 2002,11:42 pm)
H.Thunder, in my next cache, I will fill it with 1 part of portland cement, 1 part sand, and two parts peat moss.  With

I have all that stuff. I am working on another cache. It will be uniquely desguised! I just need to find about a 10 pound block of titanium, and a tub of axle grease, and I am set.   :p

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    Posted: June 04 2002,5:29 pm QUOTE

When we first started caching about three months ago,  there hasn't been too many caches that weren't loaded with interesting items and cool stuff.  The kids learned to bring a little suitcase with their trade items when going caching.  Every Thursday, Casey would have something different for show and tell at school. Like for instance, the cool rock we retrieved at one of Barrington's caches, or the compass we traded out from the Hawks View . The teachers and students  couldn't wait to hear Casey's "navicache" stories.  

But I have noticed lately that the trading of equal items is fading out a little.  I was so amazed with what my kids were saying the other day while driving to the picnic.  I reminded them that they forgot their little suitcase for trading, and they told me, "Thats ok dad, It's all about the FIND!" I chuckled inside when I heard that! :D  Don't get me wrong, we will always trade items, especially the george bills, but the kids are right; there is NOTHING like FINDING the cache itself! :oo:

The Hughes Family
(upinyachit)
:)
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mrmom Offline
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    Posted: June 05 2002,12:18 pm QUOTE

I’m sorry, I thought that it was just assumed that we are all on the same page that the sport IS about the hunt.  To quote Roadkill, “The real  treasure is in the hike.”  This sport is growing exponentially.  The treasured hikes are becoming fewer and fewer.  I have been fortunate in Western. NY to have joined the bandwagon before much of “the caching valuable real-estate” has been taken.  I believe that if one is to place a cache, a reasonable amount of time and effort should go into its design and placement.  The cache should reward the finders with a beautiful vista, or a lesson in history or science, or a challenging hike, or a lesson in camouflage, or a treasure at the end.  I am by no means rich, but I spent over $200.00 placing six meager caches.  I would not have placed the caches if they were not “Roadkill quality.”  If I don’t put the time, effort and research into placing a cache... Why then should you waist your time finding it?  As this sport grows, we need to as a group establish standards or self-police.  If we don’t every roadside ditch and bike path will be littered with a plastic container containing  $0.19 bic pens.  I am certainly not for any form of outside regulation, but how can we prevent the sport from heading in that direction? Uphold our reputation.
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    Posted: June 05 2002,1:46 pm QUOTE

I agree with you, Mrsmom, but if the sport of it is the find, then why would we worry about 19 cent bic pens?  How about the people who would like to be involved with Navicache  that don't have much money to put into it?  Should we exclude them because they cannot pack their caches as nice as most of ours?  ???

Most of the caches we have been on have had nice stuff in them.  Some people trade out equally and others do not.  When a cache has been visited that many times, you are eventually going to run out of the nice stuff.  If you find that bothersome, then there is nothing stopping you from beefing up your cache to keep your "reputation" afloat.  We plan on visiting our caches to make sure they are up to par, as we put much time, thinking, and effort into ours.

That would probably help in getting people to notice that once in a while, a real treasure is sometimes expected.  We feel that the owner should make sure their caches are up to their own standards that they choose.

I have brought my 5 year old niece on a couple of hunts and she squealed with delight finding a McDonald's barbie toy!  I now have her hooked!!  LOL  :D

Keep it sweet!

The Hughes Family
(upinyachit)
:)
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Quinn Offline
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    Posted: June 05 2002,3:17 pm QUOTE

Each cacher is different. Some people like the hunt, some like placing the cache. For those that place the cache it should be up to them to set the rules for logging and trading items within that cache. If a person places a cache that has high end contents and asks that high end trades be made, it should be so.

If this is statd in the cache text and a person who finds it trades but with a quite clear downward value, this is not the cache placers intentions and is unfair to him/her. Caching can be about the hunt, but does not have to be, it could also be about the find, and to keep those finds interesting it should be a fair trade.

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Hinge Thunder Offline
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    Posted: June 05 2002,3:54 pm QUOTE

I would like to think my reputation for my caches is based on the challenge & creativity of the hide, and not what is in them. Troll's Treasure multiple visits to the park, and much planning before I placed it. I spent a bit of time looking at topograpical maps before visiting the sites, and placing some other of my caches. Leprechaun's Treasure also took some planning, and ALOT of preparation (multiple attempts to get it right). More time & money went into preparing the cache, than the contents. If people see me as a cheapskate who hides some of the most challenging caches in the area, I am okay with that.  :^^

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mrsmom Offline
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    Posted: June 05 2002,6:18 pm QUOTE

Quote (upinyachit @ June 05 2002,3:46 pm)
I agree with you, Mrmom, but if the sport of it is the find, then why would we worry about 19 cent bic pens?  How about the people who would like to be involved with Navicache  that don't have much money to put into it?  Should we exclude them because they cannot pack their caches as nice as most of ours?  ???

I think you misunderstand the point Mr Mom is trying to make. If you can't put together a "high quality" cache box because of cost, at least make it a memorable hike, a beautiful view, or a fun multi cache. Or, make it a stamp book with no trading or a virtual cache. But the cache that he is speaking of that started this thread not only was a large box filled with pens, a free ruler, and a very used meal toy, it appeared to have been just thrown anywhere. All throughout all of our caches he will tell you I always say it's in the hunt and especially the hike. But this was put together with no time or effort. The box appeared to me as if he was expecting other people to trade up and fill his cache for him.
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mrmom Offline
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    Posted: June 05 2002,9:51 pm QUOTE

Quote
I believe that if one is to place a cache, a reasonable amount of time and effort should go into its design and placement.  The cache should reward the finders with a beautiful vista, or a lesson in history or science, or a challenging hike, or a lesson in camouflage, or a treasure at the end.

QUOTE
"I believe that if one is to place a cache, a reasonable amount of time and effort should go into its design and placement.  The cache should reward the finders with a beautiful vista, or a lesson in history or science, or a challenging hike, or a lesson in camouflage, or a treasure at the end."



That's the reward.  Not all of the rewards require money - some do.  In the end there is a reward.  People do things for rewards.  ALL living things follow that same rule.

As far as self regulation goes - as the sport grows - do we take the PR hits and the eventual govt. regs/laws as poorly placed geo-junk tarnishes the sports name?  The park service is already pointing a spotlight this way.  ( NPS will never find h.thunders ) Lets be forward thinkers and direct the sports future - not just react to it. NO NO NO it's not about the 19 cent pen, B-U-T as soon as the road side ditches begin to fill with plastic containers and 19 cent pens the media and others will have a feild day TRASHING our sport.  Then it will be gone. We must keep our caches well designed to prevent this.  What is the differece between geojunk and geotreasure?  Through discussions such as this, the answer is defined.  In the end, it goes back to the person placing the cache.  ***THE TIME AND EFFORT IN PLACING AND DESIGN IS KEY*** I am not asking questions to stir the pot but to place in our minds  the questions: ( when we place our own cache )  "Is this a well designed and placed cache.  Will outsiders see this as litter or junk?  Do I need to place this cache?  What is the lesson or reward for the finder?"

Edited by mrmom on --
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Scout Offline
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    Posted: June 06 2002,8:22 am QUOTE

Quote (mrmom @ June 05 2002,5:51 pm)
In the end, it goes back to the person placing the cache.  ***THE TIME AND EFFORT IN PLACING AND DESIGN IS KEY***

The person placing the cache loses control when he publishes its location. No matter how well hidden, some geocacher will leave it out in the open. No matter how well stocked initially, after enough visits, it will be filled with junk.

Perhaps a cache health rating could be added to the find logs. Caches with low ratings would need to be fixed or would automatically be archived.

This doesn't clean up the leftover litter, but perhaps that's the final step after archiving. Removal of remains could be a third count geocachers could be credited with, along with caches hidden and caches found.

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    Posted: June 06 2002,8:26 am QUOTE

WAAAAZZ  UPPPP,  wow guys, man you guys go on and on. settle down buck shots.ITS A GAME ,cant we all get along .i have love for ya all man.
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    Posted: June 06 2002,9:31 am QUOTE

Do you really believe that the road side ditches are going to be filled with trashy caches???  How is the sport being trashed if you can still get credit for a find?  The only thing we would have to worry about is the geotrashers.  I don't think the media would have anything bad to say about us!

How you design your cache should be up to the team.  That is a preference.  Not everyone has to place a cache built on someone elses preferences.  You have the choice whether or not to go to it.  I feel that my preference in hiding ours is my poems that I write for it to catch an eye or two.  It is very fun and I wouldn't have it any other way.   Chance are, someone is going to it, whether there are trinkets or just a log book.  

Any "outsider" that I have told about this didn't seem to think it was about littering or leaving "boxes" laying around.  They wanted to know more!  Potential members!!!!  How do you think we came to be members?  Anyone that comes to this site and joins that truly wants to get involved is probably going to put the effort into hiding a few as well; that is almost more fun than finding one! :p

I think Scout is on the right track.  There should at least be a mandatory check back date for caches hidden; just to make sure all is well.  That would solve your dilemma, Mr. Mom.  Maybe if the hider didn't like what they saw when they checked back, they might just beef it up and report back with a comment.  What does everyone think?

The Hughes Family
(upinyachit)
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    Posted: June 06 2002,4:00 pm QUOTE

Hhmm,  I've been reading this thread an mulling over my opinions.

For me the joys in geocaching are...

*the locations you find.  I honestly prefere geocaching over site seeing because the places that I have discovered are often ones that locals aren't aware of.  It's just been the greatest to find myself in the midst of a beautiful park that had sand and pine trees, the edge of a gorge, wading hand in hand with the lot of HIltons, in cemetaries that are beautifully adorned for the living....

*the desire to push myself and tackle situations that I couldn't in any other situation imagine doing....Walking with a boot full of water and then justifying another cache, walking on a log over a creek and trusting fearless no to let go, trudging on even though mud is spattered up to my neck, braving ticks and then being willing to go out again...

*this is a most excellent way to integrate technology with nature.  I've been reading a lot of Tolkien lately and I must say that I way prefere his work over other fantasy pieces like Star Trek and Star Wars......Nature just has much more to offer esp  in a day and age where no one has any time...Kicking back in the woods just is healthy all the way round..physically and psychologically

*without exception geocachers are great people.  The cache event was an example of this....I found a group of people assembled that had you seen in a grocery store, you would have thought that they had nothing in common.  Varied ages, appearances, life styles, and incomes........but in the midst of all that there was constant conversation, smiles and the willingess to share adventures....

So yeah I have been to a few caches where I was first and the box held AOL discs........but it made for a great story....being bombed by planes that I wrote up....only to have other cachers discover as I did that these were remote controlled planes..........

I feel a bit more disappointed when we find a cache in the midst of a dump but even then there is something if you look hard enough...snail shells that are stripped black and yellow or walking  up loose black top...........

The prizes.  I rarely take anything mostly the kids do that...But after 90 caches they are now much more selective...If there isn't something of interest they are happy to leave without a trade.....But when they find their favorites..glo sticks, anything butterfly or fairy, pens, key chains......ect they are more than happy to trade and besides once the box is found the thrill is always in opening it and seeing what lies within......

Each "adventure" is what you make of it and if it wasn't all that great ...... then the story turns that way on the log........

See ya on the trails!!    :^:

Dx

Edited by DxChallenged on --

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dgridley Offline
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    Posted: June 06 2002,6:09 pm QUOTE

My favorite part is the logs and the stories they contain (unless you're first, of course!)... it'd be great to reproduce all the logs in printed form along with the cache pics.

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    Posted: June 06 2002,6:39 pm QUOTE

couldnt have said it any better then Dx Challenged,(maybe not as long) lol. :wave  :D .have fun everybody from the fourpack
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mrmom Offline
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    Posted: June 06 2002,7:33 pm QUOTE

An excellent summary Dx.  :)  :)  :)
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DxChallenged Offline
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Posted: June 06 2002,8:02 pm QUOTE

re..my long posts......Hey I'm a speech pathologist by trade....

Communication is my bread and butter.......

It's just that some times I have more bread than butter.......
Or more butter than bread........whoa long day!!!

LOL

Dx

Edited by DxChallenged on --

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"Have you no news on your travels?" from the Book of Fairy and Folk Tales of Ireland
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mrmom Offline
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    Posted: June 07 2002,10:16 am QUOTE

QUOTE.
We've also partnered with the four largest federal land managing agencies in the U.S. - the U.S. Forest Service, the National Park Service, the Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. All of these agency partners have adopted our message as their minimum impact message, and work to spread the word to public land users across the country.

I'm posting this to inform you about the Leave No Trace program. We have been hearing a great deal lately about geocaching, particularly from federal and state land managers, regarding the potential impacts that can be caused to plants, animals, water sources, etc. from individuals engaging in this unique activity. QUOTE

Found this posted by LEAVE NO TRACE on 7 June 02
They are watching..
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DxChallenged Offline
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Posted: June 07 2002,1:54 pm QUOTE

Hey....so let's get Hinge Thunder to outdo these guys......See if they can find em.........

I did read a post once about a cache that had a "people trap" next to it.........What do you bait that with? Pizza, donuts....

Dx

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"Have you no news on your travels?" from the Book of Fairy and Folk Tales of Ireland
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dgridley Offline
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    Posted: June 07 2002,2:16 pm QUOTE

I think they used GPS batteries as bait..

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Hinge Thunder Offline
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    Posted: June 07 2002,2:20 pm QUOTE

I could always hide The Leprechaun's Treasure (reprise) on BLM land, and let em try to find it! :) hehehehehe

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mrmom Offline
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    Posted: June 09 2002,12:45 am QUOTE

H.T.  They'd be standing right over you, not even knowing that you are there.  NOW THAT'S NO TRACE...even while you are there.
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