Group: Super Administrators
Joined: Dec. 2001
||Posted: April 01 2010,4:15 pm
|Quote (KFL @ Mar. 09 2010,11:23 pm)|
I am not sure about the policy about the cache data on navicache.com. Let me restrict the discussion to the caches, excluding the logs. There are three types: open, non-commercial and personal use only.
Up until recently, my impression was that I can use data from
- open caches for anything I like
- non-commercial caches for anything not commercial
- personal use caches only for myself
However, then I stumbled over the XML interface and what I read in the header was this:
<!-- transferred from navicache.com -->
<!-- This data is provided AS IS. Navicache makes no warranties -->
<!-- or representations as to its accuracy. Use of this data is -->
<!-- restricted to the terms set out below and those listed in -->
<!-- the Disclaimers for navicache.com -->
<!-- 1. You may use this data for personal and non-commercial -->
<!-- use ONLY. -->
<!-- 2. You may not redistribute this cache data without prior -->
<!-- permission from Navicache.com and then for non-commercial -->
<!-- use ONLY and only providing that the original source of -->
<!-- such data is declared in one of the following manners: -->
<!-- (Data Source=NaviCache or 'Courtesy of NaviCache' ). -->
<!-- 3. If this data is used on another cache server, then -->
<!-- permission is granted to NaviCache for accessing of other -->
<!-- caching data at the cache server (fair use in kind). -->
<!-- 4. You may not provide any means for others to obtain this -->
<!-- data from our servers without the direct use of this -->
<!-- script either by way of another script or submission -->
<!-- form. -->
That makes me wonder. It states this is only valid for the XML data. But looking at the data itself, that is not really different from the data in the GPX files or the cache websites. Where does this policy really apply to?
To break it down a little better...
"1. You may use this data for personal and non-commercial use ONLY." - Meaning that you can use it to load into a GPS, for research, archival purposes, etc so long as you are not receiving compensation from anyone for doing so and it is for your own personal use.
"2. You may not redistribute this cache data without prior permission from Navicache.com and then for non-commercial use ONLY and only providing that the original source of such data is declared in one of the following manners: (Data Source=NaviCache or 'Courtesy of NaviCache' ) " .
You can also (WITH PERMISSION) share the data with others by burning the file to CD to be GIVEN away, posting the file to a site for download, loading the data into a database on your own site for others to access, etc, providing you do not charge a fee of any kind in order for others to access the data contained within the XML file obtained from our database. You will also provide credit for the file when distributed or within each and every listing if used on another site as stated.
"3. If this data is used on another cache server, then permission is granted to NaviCache for accessing of other caching data at the cache server (fair use in kind) " .
This is where the Geocaching rule of etiquette 'take something out, put something in' comes into play. In other words, If you do in fact make the data available to others through another cache server/database/site that you maintain, and others have listed caches on your site that are not currently cross-listed on navicache.com, then you grant us the right and will provide a means for us to access that data to be added to our database as well. Share and share alike I guess you could say.
I don't quite understand point 4. How should I provide something to obtain these data from navicache.com servers? Should that maybe read 'your' and not 'our' servers? Should this prevent someone just offering a complete XML file on their own servers? Or is this there to be sure that the throttling is not circumvented?
"4. You may not provide any means for others to obtain this
data from our servers without the direct use of this script either by way of another script or submission form."
No it should read 'our servers' not 'your'. This was added due to the fact that when we first made the option to download the XML data available, rather than create their own database a few sites created forms that permitted their users to enter criteria, then pull the XML file from our database, sort the data and then display what their user had requested. This prompted some changes on our end as well as the addition of #4 in order to reduce server load.
Of course it could be possible (with permission) to offer such a mapping service. Where do you think Ed "Buxley's" gets the data for his Navicache listed caches? The difference here is 'you' would be accessing the needed data (coordinates, cacahe name, status), and then simply providing pins/links back to the corresponding cache listing on our site. Because you are not actually redistributing the data itself, no foul. By the way, the XML data file is not the preferred method to do this .
Let's for the following assume I interpreted the XML Terms incorrectly, or I get the information by other means (websites, GPX, GPSS). Am I then correct that I can use (a) 'open' caches for whatever I like, (b) 'non-commercial' caches for anything not commercial and © 'personal use' caches only for myself?
In the context of the maps, am I right that I am only allowed to use data from 'open' and 'non-commercial' caches, but I cannot use data from 'personal use only' caches? How does "Buxley" handle that? He is not navicache, yet 'personal use only' caches are displayed there. Is it ok to use the coordinates of personal-use-only caches, but nothing else - or maybe the coordinates + waypoint (cache number), but nothing else - such that it is at least possible to 'know' that there is a cache, with a hint as to where to look for more information?
He is not displaying the cache listing, simply a link back to the cache listing that the owner has submitted and retains the ability to access/edit. That is where the big difference comes in.
If I offer an interactive map, some parts of these data have to be offered from another server than navicache.com (e.g. in a better suited format). However, this clearly is a redistribution of the data, as prohibited in point (2) (at least without explicit permission). Isn't prohibiting redistribution of cache data somehow against the whole 'free cache data' idea (obeying the wishes of the owners of course)?
Not prohibited...simply requires that you ask permission. The 'open-caching' concept (which originated here by the way) only stipulated that all members have equal access to all cache listings. Cache listings as submitted by the cache owner should not be available exclusively to premium members/paying subscribers if a non-paying or different member level does not have access to that same listing. In other words...No "pay for play". This is done via the standard cache listing pages. Now if a site owner wishes to offer premium services such as alternate methods of accessing their data (like XML, GPX, GPSS, etc), include maps within the listing page, nearby points of interest, etc. and make those services available for paid members only, then that would be entirely up to them and still within the open-caching concept.
Please do not think I am particularly picky. I just want to know beforehand where I am standing with using these data. I don't only want any legal trouble, but I also don't want to create a bad mood or any misunderstanding.
I am sorry if I didn't understand some obvious things. I would be happy if this could be explained maybe just in other words.
This post is not meant to add to or detract from any posted policy so ...Best I can add at this point...if in doubt, ask!